Insight Of An Intern – Sexism in Tech
October 2, 2012 in Afterhours, Coding, Community Internship, Community Marketing, Conferences, Intern Advice, Intern Guide, Introduction, Networking, Personal, Sexism, Slideshow, Technology
Believe it or not, I’m generally not one to get on my high horse. Despite being a politics student, I attempt to keep my mind open and, where appropriate, my mouth shut.
But I have my limits, so I apologise in advance for what may be quite a long entry.
I am currently attending a GOTO conference in Aarhus, Denmark; it’s a software development conference designed for developers, team leads, architects and project managers. Overall, it has been a great experience; my first ever tech conference, my first time travelling to a new country on my own and a really great chance to immerse myself in the latest developments in the software development community.
As with most things tech, the conference is hugely male-dominated – I’d estimate that around 90% of the attendees are male, and around 80% of the exhibiting sponsors, of which my placement company 10gen is one.
Now, this isn’t generally an issue; I’ve always been somewhat of a tomboy, and in my short time in the tech industry I’ve been fortunate to meet some of the nicest people I’ve ever met; in fact, my placement company itself provides undoubtedly the most welcoming and supportive working environment that I have ever had the pleasure to experience.
Yet there are still moments where I am forced to consider whether this is really an industry culture I wish to be a part of- and whether it really wants me to be a part of it…
Last night was one of these occasions, when I was confronted by a tech evangelist from another vendor who – though not intending to cause offense – blithely announced to a table of my industry colleagues that I had obviously gotten the 10gen job due to being a ‘young hot chick’, and that had I been ‘an ugly girl of 300 pounds’ I wouldn’t have been sat there that evening.
I’m not denying that aesthetics have an effect upon the way others react to each other, nor indeed the chances people are given in life. It’s a sad yet accurate statement that we tend to respond more positively to those considered aesthetically pleasing. What I objected to so vehemently in the situation was that this man had taken no time to enquire about my academic or employment credentials, nothing of my tech-related knowledge (admittedly only basic at the moment, but improving every day in this job) nor anything other than what he took to be the only thing I had to offer as a person in that moment; the way I looked.
I’m obviously not alone in my feelings – a blogpost by The Real Katie summarises nicely one of the most frustrating issues as a woman in tech:
______
Let me tell you, I love coding. Been doing it since before I hit puberty. I did it when I barely had the money to keep a server up. I do it on the weekends and evenings, and I’m teaching my kids how to do it. I’ve spent thousands of dollars to go to conferences so I can learn more about it. Why would I ever leave the profession where I got paid real money to do what I love?
In short, I got tired of being told to ‘lighten up.’
This industry is one of subtle sexism. I almost prefer outright sexism, because at least that you can point out. The subtle barbs are usually dismissed as something I need to not care about. It was a joke! Sheesh. Why are you so sensitive?! All I did was make a joke about you needing to be in the kitchen!
______
This ‘beneath the surface, only having a laugh’ sexism may seem harmless at first – indeed, any woman who calls someone out about it is liable to be labelled as an overreacting feminazi – but I’ll be honest with you; it’s exhausting. There’s only so many times I want to have to fake a smile as a guy ignorantly makes a crack about how the MongoDB logo is particularly well-placed on my t-shirt (right across my bosom) or how marketing girls are always a highlight of conferences.
Such subtle sexism is almost more infuriating than the issue of sexual harassment in computer gaming, because at least the kind of person to scream “Stupid bitch! I hope your boyfriend beats you. Nah, you can’t get a boyfriend” are easily labelled as AWTDs (work that one out). But those guys acting out this other kind of sexism are harder to deal with because, I kid you not, they’re often bloody likeable people.
As Charles Arthur put so well, it’s a sort of background hum of sexism; the level of droning that can drive women out of potential careers, and leave the ‘brogrammers’ baffled, looking at each asking “where are all the women?”.
I think we can all agree, there’s something infinitely depressing about the fact that even in one of the most progressive industries in the world, we’re still debating the treatment of women.
[It should be noted that all views expressed here are my own and not that of 10gen, The University of Bath or anyone else for that matter]
“There’s only so many times I want to have to fake a smile as a guy ignorantly makes a crack about how the MongoDB logo is particularly well-placed on my t-shirt (right across my bosom)”
It’s indeed a tricky one. Men tend to be more horny. Considering a recent transgender story that I’ve heard, it must be hormonal. Thus, I’d guess that the “well placed” *thought* comes up more often in male brains than in female ones (if, say, a guy had a MongoDB logo on his crotch). Then the question is: Do you verbalize that thought, do you think about how what you are going to say will make the other person feel? Empathy is a rare gift and even rarer in tech circles (where machines are often liked for a reason – social awkwardness). I’ve also seen many nice people say offensive things, especially when they are nervous and try to be funny. One thing women can do is give honest feedback when something offensive happens, so faking a smile might be counter-productive – how will your opposite ever learn? It’s probably not easy to remain calm, but it helps. I remember a female friend of mine calmly pointing out something (non-sexist) offensive that I said and I really appreciated it. I didn’t want to be cruel, but I was. Had she berated me about it, it would have been a much more difficult conversation (for both of us).
Then one issue remains: Will men understand if you give feedback or dismiss you as an overly sensitive feminist who doesn’t know how to have fun? I’m not sure. We still have way too many gender stereotypes in our culture, including jokes about what is typically male and typically female. Those need to go. For example, labeling someone’s action as “typically female” or “typically male” is disrespectful in two ways: It might not be typical for that person and they should be seen as an individual not as a member of their gender.
Honestly, I barely ever vocalise my discomfort. Perhaps detrimentally to the whole issue, I often tell myself that I’d be overreacting and that ‘boys will be boys’ – it just happened to be that last night particularly got to me and I felt I had to get it out there.
I completely agree that all types say these things – I’m sure other male-dominated industries experience the same issues, and indeed visa versa in female dominated industries. It’s infuriating for both sides, and I think you raise a valid point about the need to gently point out the occurrences. Thanks!
There is obviously a limit to “gently” – no need to be nice, just measured. I think most nice people go out of their way to make their opposite feel comfortable, but sometimes that is neither good for them nor for their opposite (whose behavior will not improve).
So given that you admit you have little tech-related knowledge, it seems like the guy who cracked the joke at your expense was entirely in the right?
Not at all – I wan’t hired to develop or as an SA – I’m a community marketing intern with a growing and happy interest in all things code (in fact I have recently decided to undertake learning Python).
I was hired as I’ve had two previous positions within marketing and media, have held the post of News editor at a local paper and write for the Huffington Post. I also am passionate about the potential of technology in this world.
Your comment seems from the same school of thought as the man last night – if you’d taken the time to ask what I was actually doing at GOTO then maybe you wouldn’t have been so quick to judge.
don’t wrestle with pigs Ceri, you only get muddy and the pig enjoys it…
I went to Eurogamer expo last week and was happily surprised by how many woman there were on the show floor, both as visitors and as representatives. As the games industry changes away from AAA shooter titles aimed at young men and more towards the casual/indie scene we’re seeing a lot more female gamers coming out of the woodwork.
A lot of people fight against it, but there is a gender split in what men and woman want from their games, simply put I know a lot of women who play Portal, Zelda, Pokémon, Minecraft, and many many MMOs. They tend to be games that have a higher intellectual requirement, but a slower more thoughtful pace. Women like to take everything in, think about what’s going on, and act on that information where as men seem to like more reactive, fast paced games that focus on fast response and, in general, less thought.
Portal is an interesting case study, one thing I noted is that most women I know to have played it had a little difficulty getting use to the WASD FPS shooter control system, but then so did my 50 year old dad when he tried it. It’s something that doesn’t come to people quickly. Lots of teenage men can do it because they started playing half life and counterstrike at a young age, for example when I put my hands on a keyboard my hand really does just float over WASD without thinking about it. However once past that initial control issue women seem to have more creative and more well thought out solutions to the puzzles the game sets, women look, men fiddle. I’ve not studied this properly but I’m sure both approaches solve puzzles as efficiently as the other.
I want to say that women are becoming more accepted as develops, but I can’t say that I’ve noticed that. I know a few women who work either for a company or as indie developers, more than there use to be I’m sure but it’s not moving as fast as I would like.
The My Little Pony phenomenon, as much as people laugh at it is both interesting and ground braking. When I was young if a guy had been found to have enjoyed a show such as MLP they would have been ridiculed; However because of the pervasiveness of the internet and the culture that has grown around the show I live in hope that the next generation (as it were) grow up more opened minded about these things, they are (in many cases) future developers and IT professionals.
The industry might be changing slowly but the (male) player base isn’t. In my cases communities have gotten worse. The abhorrent treatment of woman on the likes of xbox live needs to change. I don’t know how but it does. The provenance of using the word “rape” to convey being beaten in the game. It’s horrible, depressing and spreading.
I would however disagree with you that these people are often likeable, the laws of averages says some of them must be, however most of them are likely basement dwelling going nowhere idiots who get their only rush out of yelling at people online; They are bullies, they don’t have the constraints of the real world to scare them away from saying these things and they are the root of the issue. Likeable people may accidentally pick up this language without thinking about it, in which case they need to be told ‘yes, that is offensive and no it’s not ok.’.
There were booth babes at Eurogamer, and they were mobbed by the same kind of idiots as above, they wanted to get near a woman for once. The “babes” were there representing the big tech developers (ADM/Nvidia). I did hear several game developers (male and female) saying they found it both saddening and uncomfortable, other trade shows (PAX) have banned booth babes. I hope others follow this example.
Frankly I am impressed that they can keep that fixed smile and walk in those heels *all day* while fending off advances and misogyny at every turn. I came to the conclusion that they must have somehow managed to convince themselves that it’s what they want, and it’s what they need to do; which to me is the most horrible thing about it all. I can’t see how anyone could take it any other way.
In reference to the rest of the tech industry. It’s full of old guard men who don’t see woman as anything but sales tools, even once they’ve proved their worth between a chair and an IDE. The games industry is trailblazer of equality, it’s full of young opened minded people who want to make something. Admittedly the trail it’s blazing is weak and fraught with issues but the change is happening, we have to work hard to speed it up, and to change the minds of those who don’t see the hypocrisy.
I went to Eurogamer expo last week and was happily surprised by how many woman there were on the show floor, both as visitors and as representatives. As the games industry changes away from AAA shooter titles aimed at young men and more towards the casual/indie scene we’re seeing a lot more female gamers coming out of the woodwork.
A lot of people fight against it, but there is a gender split in what men and woman want from their games, simply put I know a lot of women who play Portal, Zelda, Pokémon, Minecraft, and many many MMOs. They tend to be games that have a higher intellectual requirement, but a slower more thoughtful pace. Women like to take everything in, think about what’s going on, and act on that information where as men seem to like more reactive, fast paced games that focus on fast response and, in general, less thought.
Portal is an interesting case study, one thing I noted is that most women I know to have played it had a little difficulty getting use to the WASD FPS shooter control system, but then so did my 50 year old dad when he tried it. It’s something that doesn’t come to people quickly. Lots of teenage men can do it because they started playing half life and counterstrike at a young age, for example when I put my hands on a keyboard my hand really does just float over WASD without thinking about it. However once past that initial control issue women seem to have more creative and more well thought out solutions to the puzzles the game sets, women look, men fiddle. I’ve not studied this properly but I’m sure both approaches solve puzzles as efficiently as the other.
I want to say that women are becoming more accepted as develops, but I can’t say that I’ve noticed that. I know a few women who work either for a company or as indie developers, more than there use to be I’m sure but it’s not moving as fast as I would like.
The My Little Pony phenomenon, as much as people laugh at it is both interesting and ground braking. When I was young if a guy had been found to have enjoyed a show such as MLP they would have been ridiculed; However because of the pervasiveness of the internet and the culture that has grown around the show I live in hope that the next generation (as it were) grow up more opened minded about these things, they are (in many cases) future developers and IT professionals.
The industry might be changing slowly but the (male) player base isn’t. In my cases communities have gotten worse. The abhorrent treatment of woman on the likes of xbox live needs to change. I don’t know how but it does. The provenance of using the word “rape” to convey being beaten in the game. It’s horrible, depressing and spreading.
I would however disagree with you that these people are often likeable, the laws of averages says some of them must be, however most of them are likely basement dwelling going nowhere idiots who get their only rush out of yelling at people online; They are bullies, they don’t have the constraints of the real world to scare them away from saying these things and they are the root of the issue. Likeable people may accidentally pick up this language without thinking about it, in which case they need to be told ‘yes, that is offensive and no it’s not ok.’.
There were booth babes at Eurogamer, and they were mobbed by the same kind of idiots as above, they wanted to get near a woman for once. The “babes” were there representing the big tech developers (ADM/Nvidia). I did hear several game developers (male and female) saying they found it both saddening and uncomfortable, other trade shows (PAX) have banned booth babes. I hope others follow this example.
Frankly I am impressed that they can keep that fixed smile and walk in those heels *all day* while fending off advances and misogyny at every turn. I came to the conclusion that they must have somehow managed to convince themselves that it’s what they want, and it’s what they need to do; which to me is the most horrible thing about it all. I can’t see how anyone could take it any other way.
In reference to the rest of the tech industry. It’s full of old guard men who don’t see woman as anything but sales tools, even once they’ve proved their worth between a chair and an IDE. The games industry is trailblazer of equality, it’s full of young opened minded people who want to make something. Admittedly the trail it’s blazing is weak and fraught with issues but the change is happening, we have to work hard to speed it up, and to change the minds of those who don’t see the hypocrisy.
“In reference to the rest of the tech industry. It’s full of old guard men who don’t see woman as anything but sales tools, even once they’ve proved their worth between a chair and an IDE.”
Speaking as a Java developer who’s worked in finance, manufacturing, education and a bunch of other things, this is just not true (in my experience). The tech industry values tech, and if you prove yourself as a developer, whether you’re male or female, you’re respected. It really doesn’t take long before you’re seen as a coder not a girl. Men have the same problem – you’re a n00b before you earn respect. This is not a gender issue.
Oh how depressing. I do get comments every time I speak at a conference along the lines of “…and you’re a woman!”, but it’s not surprising that people are surprised when there are so few of us. Usually this is followed by “It’s awesome to see women techies here, why aren’t there more of you?”. This is something I’m so bored of hearing I’m doing a presentation about it on Wednesday at JavaOne.
But apart from these types of (positively-intended) comments, I thought that we don’t have a problem with subtle (or not-so-subtle) comments so much these days. It’s a single comment like that and the inevitable blog post afterwards that puts women off going to these events. And don’t, by any means, think I mean you shouldn’t blog about it – you should always highlight behaviour that needs changing.
I have found conferences extremely welcoming, and great places to meet people. This is my second time at JavaOne, and I was thinking actually, do people accept me more as a woman this year than last year, or am I now just immune to the stares and the comments? Is it because I’m a speaker here, and my face has been on the website, that I feel confident in my position at the conference, rather than there being any real change in behaviour over the last year?
Regardless, I think work really needs to be done to make all people who are attending any conference for the first time feel welcomed and at home. There’s another blog post from a conference last week that I actually attended which covers this a little too: http://blog.jessitron.com/2012/09/this-is-not-ok.html
It’s particularly difficult in your situation, because the industry put you in an awkward position: many companies have hired models to (wo)man their stands, assuming that men will be attracted to the boobs, clearly making up for the fact they have a rubbish product/game/company. So, sadly, this industry created the situation by pandering to frankly rather demeaning stereotypes of men – they’re horny and they want to ogle beautiful women. To be honest, I think most techies are more interested in talking technology than having an awkward conversation with some model who was hired to hand out leaflets and hasn’t been briefed at all on the product. But we are left with a lingering impression that the young and attractive women on stands couldn’t possibly know anything about technology.
This Makes Me Sad. Particularly as I have agreed to man the 10gen booth at Devoxx. I’m seriously considering having a T-Shirt made which says “Yes I am a developer”. I’ve done something similar in the past when our user group members kept assuming I was in recruitment or HR because I’m a woman.
Love the teeshirt idea! Whenever I give a talk at a conference, it’s full of code, distributed system examples, and deployment info. And I get asked if I’m technical at every conference I’ve ever spoken at.
Oh how depressing. I do get comments every time I speak at a conference along the lines of “…and you’re a woman!”, but it’s not surprising that people are surprised when there are so few of us. Usually this is followed by “It’s awesome to see women techies here, why aren’t there more of you?”. This is something I’m so bored of hearing I’m doing a presentation about it on Wednesday at JavaOne.
But apart from these types of (positively-intended) comments, I thought that we don’t have a problem with subtle (or not-so-subtle) comments so much these days. It’s a single comment like that and the inevitable blog post afterwards that puts women off going to these events. And don’t, by any means, think I mean you shouldn’t blog about it – you should always highlight behaviour that needs changing.
I have found conferences extremely welcoming, and great places to meet people. This is my second time at JavaOne, and I was thinking actually, do people accept me more as a woman this year than last year, or am I now just immune to the stares and the comments? Is it because I’m a speaker here, and my face has been on the website, that I feel confident in my position at the conference, rather than there being any real change in behaviour over the last year?
Regardless, I think work really needs to be done to make all people who are attending any conference for the first time feel welcomed and at home. There’s another blog post from a conference last week that I actually attended which covers this a little too: http://blog.jessitron.com/2012/09/this-is-not-ok.html
It’s particularly difficult in your situation, because the industry put you in an awkward position: many companies have hired models to (wo)man their stands, assuming that men will be attracted to the boobs, clearly making up for the fact they have a rubbish product/game/company. So, sadly, this industry created the situation by pandering to frankly rather demeaning stereotypes of men – they’re horny and they want to ogle beautiful women. To be honest, I think most techies are more interested in talking technology than having an awkward conversation with some model who was hired to hand out leaflets and hasn’t been briefed at all on the product. But we are left with a lingering impression that the young and attractive women on stands couldn’t possibly know anything about technology.
This Makes Me Sad. Particularly as I have agreed to man the 10gen booth at Devoxx. I’m seriously considering having a T-Shirt made which says “Yes I am a developer”. I’ve done something similar in the past when our user group members kept assuming I was in recruitment or HR because I’m a woman.
It should be pretty obvious that no booth staff at #GOTOaar is there just for the looks (it’s way to tech). It’s an insult to 10gen – to even consider them having picked _anyone_ just for the looks. Hey – not even the red sports car in the hall had “booth babes”.
We need a variety of skills and backgrounds! I probably need both a question mark and exclamation point in this title… http://jlottosen.wordpress.com/2012/05/28/more-women-in-testing/
Ceri
It should be pretty obvious that no booth staff at #GOTOaar is there just for the looks (it’s way to tech). It’s an insult to 10gen – to even consider them having picked _anyone_ just for the looks. Hey – not even the red sports car in the hall had “booth babes”.
We need a variety of skills and backgrounds! I probably need both a question mark and exclamation point in this title… http://jlottosen.wordpress.com/2012/05/28/more-women-in-testing/
Ceri
(cont)… – do continue in IT
Also attending the GOTO conference in Aarhus I have the pleasure of talking with a lot of new people including Cerian. However short it was, I was impressed by Cerian’s ability to apply her knowledge from her background in political science and her humility of asking which programming language she ought to learn. This is the true competences we need in IT: Applying your current skills and humbly seeking new skills.
For good and evil, attractiveness will have some impact on the initial opinion people have of you. But in the end your sex and looks shouldn’t matter – only you competence, i.e. your ability to apply your current knowledge and to obtain new knowledge.
We *need* women in IT. Not because they are cute or provide another perspective, we simple need to double the mass of candidates striving to greatness within our beloved field.
Bottom line is that it’s about maturity and being respectful. I’ve had many female colleagues, most of them great at what they do, and all of them have had to tolerate behaviour such as described by the author. What is really required is a male colleague or manager who “gets it” and will effectively deal with these types of people.
There is no excuse for commenting on the placement of a logo on a woman’s shirt, just like there is no excuse for being the kind of disrespectful, arrogant jerk that would announce in a public forum that somebody must have gotten a job because of their looks. Jokes about they should be in the kitchen, are you kidding me?!
You can come up with all the justifications you want. None of them change the fact that you’re being an immature, disrespectful jerk if you treat women this way. Jerk was not my first choice for the term to use…
To clarify, the reason it takes a male colleague or manager is because they can not be told to “lighten up” or to stop being “overly sensitive” when correcting the behaviour.
To clarify, the reason it takes a male colleague or manager is because they can not be told to “lighten up” or to stop being “overly sensitive” when correcting the behaviour.
[...] my time at the wonderful GOTO Aarhus conference in Denmark, I published a blog post discussing the presence of subtle sexism within the tech industry. The blog post, which was originally about yours truly blowing off steam and venting frustration, [...]
Honestly, I barely ever vocalise my discomfort. Perhaps detrimentally to the whole issue, I often tell myself that I’d be overreacting and that ‘boys will be boys’ – it just happened to be that last night particularly got to me and I felt I had to get it out there.
I completely agree that all types say these things – I’m sure other male-dominated industries experience the same issues, and indeed visa versa in female dominated industries. It’s infuriating for both sides, and I think you raise a valid point about the need to gently point out the occurrences. Thanks!
There is obviously a limit to “gently” – no need to be nice, just measured. I think most nice people go out of their way to make their opposite feel comfortable, but sometimes that is neither good for them nor for their opposite (whose behavior will not improve).